Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: There's other advancing technology, microelectronics, artificial intelligence, allowing war fighters to take data and react quicker. Missile defense for America that will involve technology and programs that will probably be executed through the OTA authorities. They are developing faster. Russia has already used a hypertonic weapon. We've seen how rapidly China is developing some of their capabilities. Some of the elements they're doing are faster than us. And that's why this executive order is important, so that we accelerate the pace of our development, deployment of weapons.
[00:00:36] Speaker B: Hello, and welcome to the Defense Tech Podcast. I'm your host, civilian Sydney.
Today we're diving into a major shift in the defense innovation landscape.
President Trump has issued a new executive order aimed at accelerating the way that the DoD acquires critical technologies, with a spotlight on the use of other transaction authorities, or OTAs.
Joining me today is Doug Crow. He's the Senior Vice President of Program management here at Nstexcel.
Doug comes in with 40 years of expertise in the industry.
He is a Navy veteran and is so intelligent in so many different ways, including lots of various DoD systems.
He brings great insight into the acquisition environment today, and we explore what the executive order really means, how it could reshape defense contracting, and what the future holds for innovation across the defense industrial base.
I really enjoyed this episode and learned so much from Doug, and I hope that you do as well. Enjoy.
Right. Hi, Doug. Welcome to the podcast. Thank you so much for joining. Really excited to get to know more about you and get some of your expertise on OTAs and everything that's happening right now.
[00:01:49] Speaker A: Sounds great, Sydney. Looking forward to this, so appreciate it.
[00:01:52] Speaker C: Yeah, of course.
[00:01:53] Speaker B: Would you be able to start by just telling us about yourself? And I'd love to hear about your military background, too.
[00:01:59] Speaker A: So I'm Doug Crow, Senior Vice President for nscxl.
Been involved with the defense industry my entire life, basically.
So started out at the Air Force Academy, switched to an engineering school, became a naval civil servant for 40 years.
Submarine combat systems, maritime electronic warfare systems, netted radar systems, Marine Corps command and control systems. So I had a variety of different technologies that I was blessed to be able to work over the course of my career.
When I left and retired from naval civil servants, I came to work with nstxl. So I've been working there about here about three years now.
Really enjoy it. Really enjoy the leading ed technologies at nstxl, involved with and utilizing the OTA authority to be able to get those.
Those products and technologies to the warfighter faster.
[00:02:59] Speaker B: Yeah, I heard you say the word Systems. A lot.
A lot of different systems. What would you say is, did you have a favorite.
[00:03:09] Speaker A: Probably maritime electronic warfare systems. The systems is extremely relevant right now to what's going on. The fact it was utilized heavily over in the Red Sea and some other engagements recently then as well. So it's very critical to support and defend our warfighter.
[00:03:28] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. Could you explain what it is you do now at nstexcel and did you ever work with OTAs before this?
[00:03:37] Speaker A: Just a little bit. So the Strategic Inspector Missions Advanced Resilient Trusted Systems, OTA Smarts is ran by NSWC Crane. Of course I worked at NSWC Crane, so was familiar with that we in the technologies and projects there. So knew a little bit about it before I came over NSXL obviously know a thousand times more about it now. The power of the OTAs, the flexibility and agility of the OTAs. So been able to see much wider spectrum of the type of projects, prototype projects that are executed through the OTA and the possibility thereof.
[00:04:17] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. Well, I'm glad you know a lot about OTAs because that's what we're going to be talking about for most of this episode.
[00:04:23] Speaker A: That sounds great.
[00:04:24] Speaker B: So I wanted to kind of focus largely today on this executive order that the President put out on April 9, which called for the modernization of defense acquisitions and innovation within the defense industrial base using OTAs.
So the administration is saying, you know, we need to move things faster and one big way is through OTAs.
So how do you see this executive order reshaping acquisition priorities across the DoD?
[00:04:53] Speaker A: So I mean, I think it had, you know, one of the drivers in there was that one of the US forces that had the most lethal war fighting capability in the world. And to do that you really need to have speed, flexibility and scale in the acquisition process.
I mean we have a great war fighting capability now. It takes through the process, utilizing the normal processes. It can take years, decades for capabilities to get out to the war fighter. And as we've seen in many engagements, things as well that speed is no longer.
That speed can be a hindrance then as well. You may be a generation or two generations behind in various capabilities and technologies. So you know, I may reference the Russia, Ukraine war several times this we've seen that innovation on the battlefield is critical to victory or at least one adversary being able to hold off another adversary. Then you know. And at the end of the day, the President's executive order also talked about peace through strength. So the stronger, more vital and more capable where our war fighting Forces are. That reduces the chance that they'll be have to be engaged in a conflict. So I think that's important for everybody then as well. So, yeah, it was right on the mark. Getting those state of the art technologies out there at speed and scale, the executive order really is a great challenge for DoD to accelerate the ability to get new technologies and capabilities out to the warfighter.
[00:06:33] Speaker B: Yeah. You mentioned sometimes it can take decades for us to get a new capability. That seems like once those decades have gone by, or decade, whatever, feel like it will be out of date at that point.
[00:06:44] Speaker A: It can be, yeah, we can be developing technologies for a threat or an adversary capability that has moved on by the time we actually get those to the field. And we've been seeing that in some cases I won't be able to go into them. But we have seen those cases for sure.
[00:07:03] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. So do you think that this executive order gives OTAS a more central role in our defense acquisitions, or is it more of just kind of like a policy nudge than a structural change?
[00:07:16] Speaker A: I think it ended up being both. I think it's great that the policy nudge is there because that drives in changes as well. So right now they've called a policy nudge that through the acquisition commands within DoD, they'll be looking at OTAs, and. And as they do, their acquisition strategies give those more priority and emphasis then as well. I think structural, as DoD utilizes OTAs more, understands the power of them, understands how they can accelerate the process, you'll probably see some structural changes then as well, so that they're aligned to those authorities and be able to execute faster. I see that it hits a little bit both. Obviously it's a policy change right now, but I could see long term that DoD would have a structural change to accommodate that then as well.
[00:08:04] Speaker B: Okay, so in your role, you're working with government on new projects day in and day out. So I would love to hear your perspective on what types of projects you're seeing coming down the pipeline. Is there anything unique or notable right now?
[00:08:19] Speaker A: So I think some of the very critical technologies we've had a lot of projects related. So DoD maintains a critical technology list, and many of our projects are on the front end of those as well. One I can mention that we've had a lot of projects related to is hypersonic technology. You know, developing advanced weapons out into the fleet and the war fighter, being able to counter hypersonic weapons, getting those weapons, that's a very complex area. That is materials manufacturing, production or build, you know, initial prototype build and then the testing element as well. So you have a. You're basically setting up an entire industrial base to have hypersonic weapons developed and that are cost effective and that you can build at scale. It would not help the United States to have three hypersonic weapons. We've seen in, again, Ukraine, where it's a logistics war in some cases. You can't just have a few of things. You've got to have mass quantities of things. So that's where that will drive as well. You know, there's other advancing technologies. We've talked about the microelectronics, where most of it was sourced on offshore. And now the United States and DoD recognizes that's a threat. If our supply chain, our inherent supply chain is coming, is coming from one of the conflict areas. So let's say Taiwan. And so, you know, we could, we could have a massive disruption in our supply chain. So the microelectronics have been one as well. Artificial intelligence, we all know that's been, that's hitting daily life. And that's also being instrumental in some DoD programs and on the scale allowing the war fighters to take data and react quicker and understand what is in the environment. Then also I would say another one coming up is we're on the cusp of that right now is the Golden Dome, you know, the missile defense for America. I can see that that will, with all the technologies of sensing interceptors, those all will involve technologies and programs that will probably be executed through the OTA authorities.
[00:10:23] Speaker B: Yeah. For those that don't know, could you explain what the Golden Dome is and what, what from your perspective, you think we need to do in order to make it successful? Because it's a huge undertaking, right?
[00:10:35] Speaker A: Yeah, it sure is. So this is almost real time that the Israeli slash Iran conflict that's going on back and forth, Iran launching, you know, dozens or hundreds of missiles and drones back at Israel. Israel has, they're a relatively small country, so they have a pretty sophisticated missile defense system. So they've been able to counter many or most, many and most of those threats that Iran has sent towards Israel. So Golden Dome, is that on a more mega scale for the United States as well? How can we counter? And a lot of this will be launch processes, understanding when missiles are being launched right at the ground level from threat nations as well. Space will be a key part of that because space, with those sensors in space, the IR sensors, the infrared sensors will, they'll be able to take the missile launches, coordinate and work across all the United States forces this is going to be, this is going to be an all service endeavor then to be able to intercept those missiles whether they're in the boost phase, whether they're heading towards the target. So it requires advancement, a lot of technologies, command and control systems about anything that's done, and we're talking also at a global level as well, on these missiles to be launched from 7,000 miles away.
[00:11:57] Speaker B: So the Golden Dome is just putting together a bunch of different capabilities in order to put a dome, so to speak, of protection over our nation. And it will require a lot of collaboration right. Between government offices.
[00:12:11] Speaker A: That's well said. Yeah, I like your description there a lot, Sidney.
[00:12:16] Speaker B: So how are OTAS well suited for something like that?
[00:12:21] Speaker A: So the speed, the flexibility, bringing in the non traditional. So one thing about the OTA process, it, it also leverages all non traditionals. Whereas we have the Big seven or whatever defensive industrial base and the large contractors. A lot of innovation and development and technology in this country is being developed by people who are maybe outside the defense industrial base.
They've got the technologies they got, know how they don't have. They haven't worked with the government or worked with DoD in those. And so OTAS really drives trying to bring the entire innovation base of the United States into a process.
So when we do a pro, when we do a prototype development, we do the market research to see what technologies, what companies are out there that may be overlooked or may not be tracking a DoD opportunity. And we actually reach out to them to try to get that interface going and get them interested.
[00:13:18] Speaker B: So OTA consortium members will have a chance at being contributors to this Golden Dome effort, it sounds like.
[00:13:27] Speaker A: Oh, absolutely, yeah. They'll be well aware of it. We'll have a, we'll have a lot of announcements and awareness so that it doesn't pass them by without them knowing about it.
[00:13:39] Speaker B: Yeah, it sounds like a really important and exciting opportunity all around.
[00:13:44] Speaker A: Yep, yep.
[00:13:46] Speaker B: Another thing to talk about with OTAs, which you mentioned a few times, is how fast they can go. So there was one project under this, the Space Enterprise Consortium Spec OTA that we have called RGPS that went from solicitation to award in just 70 workdays, which is so fast, especially in comparison to FAR projects. But the USSF Space Force's General Saltzman actually called it out by name and said that RGPS should be the new norm of what we're looking for with solicitation timelines.
So how do you think we can achieve this as the new norm? Achieve that consistently that short timeline of 70 days or less.
[00:14:27] Speaker A: So I think that's the art of possible. And the resilient GPS program was a quick start. Secretary of the Air Force Frank Kendall designated that and the Space Force responded to that then very well. As you mentioned, the 70 day work cycle. I think it comes down to having a motivated government team and contracting team and then us ensuring that we can get rapid responses back from industry, all of us working together. So with a timeline like that, you really can't afford to have delays in the solicitation process or the evaluation process. So the nice thing about the OTA process then as well is a lot more flexible on the requirements. It's not a don't send out a document that has 5,000 shells in it that they've got to work through, respond. It provides a problem statement out there and it allows industry to come back with their innovative ideas on how they would meet that problem statement. And so we've had that in a couple cases. We had one that was also about in that same time frame, the Joint Threat Warning System that was also on a timeline, critical timeline and respond. And we got about a two month award then on that one also. So it can be done.
It's everybody within that chain putting together the timeline to meet in industry with the OTA process, they don't have to have the big cumbersome report so they can also respond very quickly as well.
[00:15:54] Speaker B: That makes sense. So with those critical ones like the Joint Threat Warning System and rgps, is it that the government comes to you and they're like, we need, this is critical, we need this to move fast and they push it quickly or how do they define which ones are prioritized?
[00:16:12] Speaker A: So yeah, it depends on the government needs we work with. And we'll have a strategy meeting to sit down with the government team understanding their timeline needed. We work through the process so everybody has an understanding of their role in that process and the time they need to respond in as well. Once that's built by working backwards from the, you know, the desired award date, then that allows everybody to know the timeline they have. So they may not be able to do a six month evaluation process, they may do the evaluation process in two weeks or something. And with the OTA process you can also phase it. You can start out with initial phases.
That allows the initial concept development. You could do multiple awards in. So you've got maybe nine companies doing the initial thing and then you can evaluate those maybe down, select 2, 3, 4, and then you can now select a Final one at the end. So the OTA process gives you a lot of flexibility on how you structure the award to continue to do that continued development, understand the development and understand how it's meeting that problem statement.
[00:17:19] Speaker B: Yeah. What's the benefit of breaking up a project into phases like that? A down select process is there a benefit to the government?
[00:17:28] Speaker A: So if you can that allows more innovative ideas at the beginning it allows the government to understand what those initial concepts are. It allows interaction between the government and that perform that industry industry performer then on what their concept is shaping up be maybe there's tweaks need to be able to be more successful towards meeting the problem statement solution that the government desires.
So the OTA provides that flexibility then as well of that collaboration working between the government and industry to make sure you've got the most ideal solution for DoD at the end of the day.
[00:18:10] Speaker B: Yeah, that totally makes sense. So maybe if there's three performers at the start and they all develop the first part of the technology, the government can have the chance to say like oh this one is the one that fits our needs the best. So we're going to move forward with the solution. And that kind of eliminates risk in that way.
[00:18:28] Speaker A: It does, it does.
The flexibility OTAs bring in as well. That's a good point that you mentioned is sometimes in those evaluation processes the government recognizes some of the best elements across several of the proposers. Maybe they all come together as a team. Each of them bring in those best products, best technology that they have to make an overall solution that's better than any of them could have did individually.
[00:18:55] Speaker B: So it makes it all more competitive as a whole.
[00:18:59] Speaker A: More competitive and more successful.
[00:19:02] Speaker B: Almost seems like we're playing matchmaker in some ways.
[00:19:05] Speaker A: With some ways. Yeah, you know we, that's a good point. We also have a lot of teaming products that we do then as well. There's always a teaming list. We do, we do an innovator networks that allows the companies to come together and talk about their services and as well or be able to communicate among themselves as well on that. So there is a lot of teaming development that goes on in a prototype project in the beginning as maybe a traditional prime is looking for key non traditionals that will meet some needs that they have to be able to execute those projects.
That's a very important aspect of the ota.
[00:19:39] Speaker C: Many OTA projects develop dual use technologies. So I'm curious about with this new executive order in place, do we expect the development of dual use technologies to increase? Will there be More focus on developing tech that has commercial aspects as well as military aspects, I think.
[00:19:59] Speaker A: So some of the technology we've talked about so far, microelectronics, some of the space aspects with the space satellites, sensors, they've already been talking about some of the dual use, how they can leverage both commercial or what we're developing here can be utilized in commercial then as well. So I've been hearing more and more of those discussions on using those commercial technologies or what we develop being using commercial technologies. As you know, there's a lot of drone technology development going on which has applicability in a civilian environment. A lot of our microelectronics that we're developing as well also have that AI, you know, artificial intelligence chips, quantum chips, those are all things that have that. I think it provides an avenue then to really leverage that dual use technologies.
[00:20:48] Speaker C: Yeah, absolutely. How do, how do OTAS help with that?
[00:20:52] Speaker A: So I think because you're also bringing in those non traditionals, you're bringing in a wider industrial base, you're bringing in people who are probably already focused on the commercial side of the house. They don't have their entire product line being DoD products. They, they develop products that are extremely aware of that. We've had some that are doing development, some manufacturing technologies for hypersonics that are also using that kind of technologies at a additive manufacturing to do some of the complex geometries. They're actually doing that to you know, design and build a car by additive manufacturing. So there is a, there are a lot of things that tie into that.
[00:21:32] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, that's very interesting. Yeah. And I think about things like GPS would be one too. Right.
Navigation, a lot of space things I feel like also are relevant to both.
[00:21:48] Speaker A: Yeah, the space with. They go back and forth on that.
Some of the elements related to weather think obviously commercial has great needs for weather, weather mapping, understanding the weather.
So those elements we developed for DoD are applicable for commercial then as well because everybody wants to know what the weather's going to be.
[00:22:09] Speaker C: Yeah, that's true. And everyone needs a way to drive around and find their way through, you know, get directions. We can't go back to MapQuest, you know.
[00:22:19] Speaker A: Exactly on that. You're right.
[00:22:21] Speaker C: Awesome. Okay, well, let's talk a little bit about some of our adversaries. So other countries like China and Russia are obviously also rapidly developing new technologies. And like you mentioned before, Iran and some places with current conflict. What do you think this new executive order means for us as a country compared to other countries own advances are Their processes similar or at least in terms of timeline, are they. Do they seem to be developing faster than we are right now?
[00:22:50] Speaker A: I think that's a good point.
It appears they are developing faster. Russia has already used a hypersonic weapon in the war with Ukraine.
We've seen how rapidly China is developing some of their capabilities. They're accelerating. There was always a phrase near peer, where they were near to us, but they weren't our peers with Russia, China. Now that's why they acknowledge there are peers in many aspects or in some aspects they may be ahead of us. Some of the elements they're doing are faster than us. And that's why this executive order is important, so that we accelerate the pace of our development, acquisition and deployment of weapons. So yeah, they're definitely doing faster. You know, there was a report a month or two ago about Chinese satellites that were dog fighting in space. So I mean, we don't have that capability to do that yet. We need to have that capability or have that capability to at least protect ourselves in space. So we got to get capabilities up there faster.
[00:23:48] Speaker C: With the Iran conflict and the hypersonics they use, was that sort of a wake up call too? Like while they're reacting quickly, we need to figure out a way to do that too?
[00:23:57] Speaker A: Yeah, we've seen multiple instances recently in the Middle east, et cetera, of a lot of different type of innovative processes that are being deployed and utilizing as well. And they have not taken decades to get out there. So I think seeing the changes, seeing what people are bringing to the battlefield, what we need to protect our forces now.
[00:24:18] Speaker C: Do you think they're able to go so quickly because they have less red tape to cut through or why do.
[00:24:24] Speaker A: You think that is there probably is that. I mean, they intently focused on executing and getting that product out to the field. So I'm not aware how the Russian acquisition system works, but I would assume based on the speed, that they are not going through some of the long processes that we have.
You know, some of our initial programs take several years before they actually get into the funding cycle then as well. So you're already losing time up front. So then going through some of the requirements, development, you just continue to lose time. Great product at the end, but that end is years after our adversaries have developed the same type of capabilities.
[00:25:06] Speaker C: Yeah, that totally makes sense at that point. Do you think there are any other critical players that we need to keep an eye on when it comes to defense tech and kind of these rapid changes in technology?
[00:25:18] Speaker A: So I think with the kind of you. You mentioned the dual use commercial. Just with the technologies that are out there and are available in the commercial set, it almost makes anybody the ability to be a player.
Obviously we've discussed Iran right now, so we see how it is.
Has that. We haven't talked about North Korea.
Those are another adversary that could really provide a disruptive influence in, you know, in the Far East.
A lot of players over there, Taiwan, Japan, China, North Korea, probably Russia, ourselves and our friends with the.
So there's a lot of players kind of floating around in that area in the Far east and so makes one reason Indopacom such an important theater for the United States.
[00:26:09] Speaker C: It's really interesting you said anyone can be a player. Is that because with dual use, you know, you can start using any sort of technology in a military sense now. So in a way anyone can be a threat, so to speak.
[00:26:25] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. Somebody can buy 200 drones and send them off on a mass assault somewhere. So yeah, people have the ability to project power a lot further than they did in the past. So. Yeah, yeah. And it gives a lot of flexibility, a lot more people to execute with the asymmetric warfare then. So.
[00:26:48] Speaker C: But that also could be a strength to us. We can start to figure out how to integrate those capabilities.
[00:26:54] Speaker A: Right? Yeah. I mean, no doubt the United States still leads in a lot of innovation in the world. So leveraging that and being on a tight end of that, being able to take those best products and technologies and utilize them for DoD needs and capabilities of war fighter.
Coming down through this process.
[00:27:14] Speaker C: Are there any other thoughts that you wanted to share, kind of to wrap up or before we close out?
[00:27:21] Speaker A: No, I would, I would encourage people take a look at the OTA processes in as well, see how it can benefit their.
Benefit their acquisition strategy out in the future, how they can utilize this to accelerate their technology roadmaps and get capabilities at a faster pace and more advanced capabilities than they may be able to otherwise. So by all means be thinking of OTA as one of your first steps in the acquisition strategy.
[00:27:47] Speaker C: Yeah, absolutely. And we'll put in some resources in the show notes too so people can learn more about. We keep talking about OTAs. If you don't know what they are, we have a lot of resources to share.
[00:27:57] Speaker A: That'd be fantastic.
[00:27:58] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. So thank you so much. I really appreciate you coming on. It's been really interesting, really great conversation. I think conversations that are critical to have right now. So I appreciate your expertise.
[00:28:11] Speaker A: Thank you so much for the invite fight. I really appreciate it.
